7.Chelsey Koepsell — Direct (Part 2)

AUDIO RECORDING: Just like we did yesterday. Remember I read you your rights?

Yes.

This is the exact same thing, but since I'm asking you follow-up questions, I need to read them to you, Okay? All right. So you have the right to remain silent. Anything you say may be used against you in court. You have the right to talk to a lawyer before and during questioning without charge. If you cannot afford a lawyer and want one, one can be provided for you before questioning without charge. Has anyone threatened you or promised you anything to get you to talk to me?

No.

Do you understand what I just read you?

Yes.

Okay. So, this morning we received his autopsy, and we were informed of some injuries that he has by the doctor. So I want to --

What are they?

So he's got scratch marks to his back.

I know what that is.

Okay. And it's called a contusion. Do you know what a contusion is? So, like, basically you're getting hit and then you get a mark from it, you'll get bruising. Someone hit you or something like that, it's called a contusion. So he had some injuries to his left shoulder. He had a cut near his left lip. You could see his mouth was --

AUDIO RECORDING: OKay. (Unintelligible) or two, he fell off my friend's bike.

Okay.

So I don't know -- and he's notorious for running into the wall (unintelligible).

What about the scratches? Is there also sex?

Yes.

Okay. Because there's also like a scratch on, like, the back of his neck, like, kind of like going -- it's, like, going straight across.

I have no idea what that's from.

And they're all recent. Like, they occurred recently. It was something that occurred (unintelligible) or that occurred a week ago or two weeks ago, three days ago, it definitely occurred the night leading up to --

In all honesty, all honesty. We have not gotten into it. That's why, like -- the only thing I thought you guys were going to ask me about, which I was going to ask you anyway, are the scratch marks on his back. Everything else, I have no idea what it is. No idea what it is. Not allowed to have my son over the house, too, so --

But your son was there when? When was he last there?

Oh, gosh.

By my understanding, he was there like last Tuesday?

Last -- I don't know if it was Tuesday -- oh, yes, he was there last week, so --

Well, we're talking about Sunday. We're just talking about what occurred Sunday. Like I said, the injuries are -- they occurred within that time period.

So you're talking about the day before yesterday?

Sunday, leading into Monday. You got up yesterday at 1:00, so -- but the incident, you guys were painting and stuff the night prior?

Correct.

So we're talking about Sunday.

That is why I'm thoroughly confused because we had a good time, sitting on the back porch, having wine, and a couple of cigarettes, and decided to go inside and literally paint, do puzzles, and play. That's why nobody got out of sorts. This is what my (unintelligible), but I don't -- I have no clue. Nobody laid a hand on me now.

He also had -- like on the left side of his forehead, he has basically bruising, and on like his head, his skull --

I have no idea.

-- as if something hit him.

I have not touched him. I have not touched him. I have not touched him.

How would he get those injuries? (Unintelligible) I have not touched him.

Yesterday when we took photographs of your overall body and they did the buccal swabs, did they go under your fingernails?

No.

Okay. Are you willing to let us --

Absolutely.

-- swab underneath your fingernails?

Go for it.

Okay.

I have no idea. And I don't want to seem out of sorts, but I have no idea. We had a good day. It was a good day. We had good days lately. Even considering everything that's going on with our jobs, life in general, and (unintelligible) and everything. It's been good. Like, I don't even know where this is coming from. (Unintelligible) the physical was probably, you think was a month ago where you got the injury, right? (Unintelligible) okay, yeah.

A few weeks. That was the last like physical altercation between the two of you? You said a month ago you think it occurred. (Unintelligible) that either.

Well --

Like, we've been good. I don't know, like, since the last time he got out of jail, like, we've been good. He's been having his classes and him seeing his probation officer, who's amazing. So --

What do you mean by good? What's your definition of good?

AUDIO RECORDING: You said you guys had been good. What's your definition of good?

I've been good. I don't think you-all understand. He comes at me all the time. He comes at me. So either I flee or try to go upstairs and go to sleep. That's usually what it is. I don't know if you talked to Brian about any of that, but most of the time I flee, I go over there.

Right. You're saying that you guys can be good, and when I asked you yesterday the last incident that you could remember was (unintelligible), which you said was a month ago, so give or take?

Right.

So what do you mean by he comes after you? Like --

He gets belligerently drunk. Like, I don't know if you-all have looked through my phone yet and seen any of the pictures and the videos that I've taken and the -- at one point, I started documenting everything.

Okay.

So you-all will see in my pictures, bloody fingers, split foreheads, he split my nose. I've got this --

Right.

-- but I don't know if Brian told you about it where I had to have almost -- like I have one really bad (unintelligible) and it got really, really, really, really bad where I had to go, like, four or five more times after (unintelligible) in the back of the leg.

Right.

So it's --

Then why are you still with him?

Everybody asks me that. When I tell guys this, I really love him. Like, I do. And I feel like I can help him. Like, I feel like I can help him, which I did because he's come a really -- he came a really long way from where he was in Philadelphia to moving back here and just dealing with everything else that he's been dealing with, I've really helped him. I bailed him out of jail, like, three times. I've gone to every single hearing, every single arraignment, everything that I did for him. Gone to see all his public defenders, go to the State, I've gone to the State. I did everything for him because I'm trying to help him because I have hope in him. And he was trying. He was really trying. Just -- I mean, he started to think about things and it just -- I think he gets overwhelmed and then it's like, the next thing you know he's drinking. So it's, like, oh, man. I know where this is going to go, so I'm going to go upstairs and read a book or I'm going to ride my bike or do something else where I don't want to drink. I don't want to drink (unintelligible) wine, whatever, or if it's a weekend, that's when you have a good time. You don't have to wake up the next day. I have to wake up the next day and do things. I have to tend to Lucas. I have to take him to school, I have all this stuff to do. He doesn't know how to, I guess, maintain himself where I can do 50 things at once and still know 50 things more previously prior that I need to get done. He can't process like that. He didn't process like that, so he would literally -- not literally, but have smoke coming out of his ears. So the next thing you know, he doesn't want to deal with. I'm going to go get something to drink. So the majority of the time I'd hang out outside and do something else because I don't want to drink. And every time, every time. His job broke his heart and it made me sad because he took so much pride in his job. And the store that he took care of so much totally went belly up and that broke his heart because he had been working at fixing it up and his manager was awful and basically gave up on all of the employees. So I think that had a huge bearing on why he would drink so much. His ex-wife is bonkers. She was all over him all the time. Send me money, send me money, send me money. How I can send you money when I don't have a job? And he's still trying to take care of me and Lucas by paying a bill here or there, getting some groceries. So he's always had something on his mind, which is why, again, (unintelligible) like get him off of me so you don't have a drink -- or he doesn't have a drink. So when you-all see my phone, you can see all the damage he has done to me. And the videos of him smashing my television because he's belligerently drunk. Well, most of the time I just don't want to be there. And I try to help him, I try to calm him down. Eventually he just passes out.

Well, yesterday you made it sound like you guys were just drinking like a glass or two -- like, yeah, you obviously had the bottle, but you told me on the -- you told me on the recording, like, that you were not drunk, he was not drunk, you guys were having a good time. I don't get -- I can't get drunk. Number one, I do not want to get drunk. I don't like being non compos mentis, having my wits about myself. TI don't like feeling out of control.

Uh-huh.

So --

I'm just saying, you're making it sound like he's a raging alcoholic today, and yesterday I was kind of asking you those questions, and you're, like, a little defensive, like, no, we're not alcoholics --

I'm not.

But you guys were both sober on Sunday, to your knowledge? Because when I said you went and passed out, you were, like, no, I didn't pass out, I just fell asleep. So now it's kind of like, what is it? Were you guys drinking and it got out of hand and --

No.

-- it got physical --

No.

-- or is it --

Sunday was one of the better days that we have had in quite some time. He's dancing with my dogs. You can see that too on the pictures, him loving the dogs. He loves the dogs. And dancing around, having a good time. Just -- just being happy kind of thing. He doesn't know -- I can't -- I mean, I can get, like, maybe two, three glasses of wine and I'll be fine, but I have to have my wits about myself because I don't know what to expect.

Well, let's talk about Sunday. What was Sunday? How were you -- like, how many glasses of wine did you have? How many glasses of wine did he have? The bottle was gone. I mean, I don't know if you poured any out --

No. That was from previous.

You said that there was a half bottle --

AUDIO RECORDING: Uh-huh. And then that you had went -- well, I don't even know how the wine -- how did you guys get the wine for Sunday?

I'm guessing he went to Publix.

Does he, like, leave the house and you stay home or do you go to Publix, like --

AUDIO RECORDING: (Unintelligible) Sunday to Publix?

So most of the time I haven't been because the convenience store where we get cigarettes is here and then Publix (unintelligible).

Okay.

So what we'll do is we'll start, go by Publix, and then on the way back catch the convenience store.

So that would be Sunday?

I'm guessing that's what he did because the next thing I know he's walking in with a bottle. So that's -- it's him trying to be nice so I don't have to go out and do it. Plus, there's stuff around the house that I had to take care of. But that's usually what will happen. Or I'm folding laundry and he'll go run out and do whatever.

Okay. So where were you guys on -- on drunkenness, not drunkenness on Sunday?

AUDIO RECORDING: No, I was not drunk. I was not drunk. So with him, I don't know -- I know when it's, like, okay, man, where I have told him, slow down. It's starting to catch up with you. Slow down. Slow down. And another thing, too, is I don't like listening to music with him because he gets too involved in the music and the music that he listens to is a little rough on the edges and, like, just it make me (unintelligible) listening to his music. So I kept asking him, let's not -- let's -- just you and me talk. You and me should be the ones that are talking. Which is still fine, because, I mean, we were playing with the dogs, whatever, and he's, like, okay. Now let's do the painting. We just did the puzzles, took a break, now let's do this. Sure enough that -- we're sitting in there talking, laughing, talking about new movies, we were watching movie trailers while we're doing painting and all that other stuff, so it's background noise to him because I think that's what he's used to and having background noise. Where me, I can sit here all day with not a peep. But he'd always have to have some kind of background noise, which I didn't mind because I think the trailers were cool, and he was interested in showing them to me, getting excited about movies that were out or upcoming.

So on your laptop you're talking about?

Uh-huh. And, I mean --

You said it was a good day, like, you guys didn't have any -- have any conversations about your relationship, you guys didn't go down, like, the rabbit hole, like, (unintelligible).

No. When I tell you this, that made me so happy that he actually listened to what I had to say with just, we'll get through it. This will be fine. It's just -- it's a small hurdle that you and I will be able to get through because --

Talking about the money, jobs --

Yes.

Nothing relationship-wise, though? Like, no issues, relationship -- like, did you guys have a conversation about your relationship or was it just about --

Just like what's going on right now. I tried to (unintelligible) from him, so he gets it off his chest, because I call him the volcano where eventually he's going to erupt.

Right.

And what he's learned in the process is to communicate, which is a huge thing in a relationship.

Right.

Where he has been practicing communication. So he actually talks to me about things and it unburdens himself. Put it on me. I'll sit there and try and figure it out for you like I have almost everything. Not a word, I just tell him to get it out of you. But when I tell you I was so happy, like, it was such a good day. I kid you not. The weather was beautiful outside. I'm the one that had him go inside so we can do puzzles, painting, listen to music or whatever else he wants to do. So then he starts doing whatever it is we're doing together in the living room. And then he starts talking, because I think he gets comfortable with, okay, you know what, we're here, it is a good day. Let me go in there and explain myself so I know. Nobody else knows, but I know. Nobody knew Jorge better than I did. I can say that I knew Jorge better than himself. And I tried in every way, shape, and form. Ask everyone. I helped him. I took care of him. I miss him a lot and I didn't even sleep last night. I miss hima lot.

Is there any chance that it got to be too much for you and you couldn't handle taking care of him and --

I never stopped. I never stopped. That's what I'm here for. I never stopped. I'm here now and still trying to help him.

I mean, we don't -- I mean, it's unexplainable how he got these injuries when --

I have no idea.

-- you were the only one with him.

A hundred percent, right hand to God, I have no idea how he got them. Nobody touched anybody. Nobody touched anybody.

Okay. You had mentioned that you'd take -- you would take photos, videos, kind of like

AUDIO RECORDING: Yeah, just documenting at one point. But that was -- that was way before, I think the last time he got arrested where he was flying off the deep end. But then I had him bailed out. I got him out of jail.

Right.

But because he had violated a pretrial diversion -- this is probation, so you don't have a choice in it. You have to go see your probation officer. You have to go to these classes, it is court ordered, where it took him a while to get used to it and understand, they're not messing around. I even went down and met his probation officer, which I say, she's wonderful. That's why (unintelligible) talked to you about. She hugged me and said how much she knows that I take care of him. She called me personally one time when he was working, 42-minute phone call. She was just saying how grateful she is that Jorge has me, and she knows how hard I'm working to help him, just like she is, and just as the classes will. So once he started actually going on a regular basis to the probation officer, and then to his substance abuse class and his -- I don't know what BIP stands for -- batterer's intervention program -- and actually listening to what it is everyone had to say, he changed. Like, I could see a change in him. Where before lashing out, he would think about it, and would always come home and show me his papers and we would look over his papers together. It was, like, wow, you actually are learning this in class? And some of the stuff that they would show them, like, videos, he would come home and be, like, Sarah, I'm so sorry for what I've done to you, because -- or a video that he watches to make him feel that way where he's, like, oh, man, I have done her wrong. But he changed. He changed.

And that's why you were still with him, even though he's done all these things to you?

When I tell you I love him, I love him.

Even when you have -- when you love somebody, you have limits.

Everybody tells me that. All my neighbors tell me that, the office, the property manager.

At some point, somebody gets enough and they have to do something to defend themselves.

I would just flee. And I don't know if you would like to see it on my phone or I think it's actually on the laptop, I actually because -- and you have to understand, too, I have -- like, prior to (unintelligible) kicked him out how many times? I had him arrested how many times?

But you also went down and bailed him out --

I know.

-- the next day.

I know (unintelligible). What was I going to tell you? Oh, previously, I actually looked up how to file a retraining order.

Okay. Because I would kick him out, his parents, because of them constantly having to take him back in, his bags of clothes, all his stuff, the one time -- the last time the father came out irate and just not even -- I don't even know if he knew he was with me in the car, just opened the back of my car and started throwing all of his stuff, throwing like, like, throwing it, like the car was off when he was throwing all his stuff. At that point, because I continually did it -- continually, it may have been three times, and he has nowhere else to go. They got fed up and said, no, either you're staying there or you're saying here. If you're staying here at their place, it's permanent, you're not going back over there anymore. So what happened is, he pursues me. So I don't know if you-all know where Cady Way Trail is? Okay. So it's literally right there from our apartment, where he'd ride his bike to work, but before he would leave extra early and come up to the wall, stay on top of his bike and (unintelligible) that I would be outside having my morning cigarette and cup of coffee. Where -- and I would also know, too, what time he would get off of work where I would know (unintelligible) do the same thing. So it's not like I ever got, like, a break from him, where I told you-all yesterday or whenever it was, I feel that it's too much togetherness and when you have too much togetherness, friction happens. So I'm going to go ride my bike. I might go upstairs and get a book. But what he -- every Wednesday, every waking moment he wants to be with me. So -- and mind you, our townhome is either upstairs or downstairs. So it's, like, if you would like to sit downstairs and watch a movie or play on the laptop, looking for jobs, you're more than welcome to. I'm just going to be upstairs watching one of my shows and maybe reading a book. So -- and then when that would happen (unintelligible), so what's for dinner? And then we'd cook together and eat dinner, and then crawl in the bed and watch a movie.

Are you talking about this is, like, recent or

AUDIO RECORDING: This was, like, a little while ago.

You're talking about -- now you're talking about tension building, going to need space, so, have you been feeling that way lately or --

No.

Okay.

No. (Unintelligible) can't talk to her, but being his ex-wife, when I say a monster, she's a monster. Like, she withholds her -- their children from speaking to him. So he gets upset about that and then she, like, completely berates him about money, about the father that he is, what he did to her and all this other stuff. It doesn't matter. Mind you, this is not, like, recent, but -- which is why he doesn't even bother calling anymore because he knows she's going to answer and he's going to have to talk to her, so, therefore, he can't talk to his daughter. So alot of times he talks to her, may let him talk to Cookie. That's on my cell phone, you can see it. It doesn't matter, like, it doesn't matter.

What does she have to do, though, with anything about what happened Sunday and into Monday?

No, I'm just saying, like, previously why the incidents, what happened, is she plays a big part of that.

Okay.

Job, money, and groceries and all that.

Okay.

Sunday -- when I tell you this, I have no idea. I have no idea.

Was there anybody else at the house?

No. It's just me and him.

Since talking yesterday, do you remember any like, timelines better, like, what time you guys were playing, what time he was zipped up in the luggage

AUDIO RECORDING: (Unintelligible) did some laundry.

You just said it was dark around 4:00, you said?

Yes, around 4:00, 4:30-ish and then --

You said it was dark when you were playing hide and seek and I'm just curious --

Yeah.

-- if you remember --

But when we were outside, that's where we would start and talk about things and then eventually would just go ahead and come inside.

That was the time -- do you remember which time that was is what she's asking.

You said you went up to bed around --

Midnight.

-- midnight and fell asleep around 12:30-ish. So those are the only times I have. So I have 4:00 and I have midnight, so there's a big gap. So I'm just curious, like, if you recall when you went upstairs to hide in the shower or --

Like, when we started to play hide and seek.

Yes.

Well, went inside probably about a half a day. We weren't out there too long. Maybe about 6:00-ish. Then --

AUDIO RECORDING: Well, we have two beach chairs that are out there.

Right.

We enjoy the weather. Plus it started to get dark and gnats --

Yeah.

So, let's go inside. I don't want to be out here anymore. Let's go. So we're doing whatever. We did it for a while because that puzzle, I don't know if they took it or they saw it. We're doing the puzzle again, finished it. Started to paint -- well, started listening to music for a little bit. Started to paint. Can we turn the music off? No problem. Started to talk, paint, whatever. Maybe, gosh, that was probably a good hour and a half, so 8:00 o'clock-ish. (Unintelligible) originally?

No. That's when we were, like, painting. So then it's, like, okay, well, I can't -- I don't want to paint anymore. Let's just, come on. Okay. Want to play hide and seek? Tag, you're it (unintelligible) take off. That's what we did.

And then you went upstairs and then he didn't come up and you came down, and the suitcase was there originally because you guys were planning to do donations --

AUDIO RECORDING: Have you guys ever played -- you said you played hide and seek, like, probably three times in your relationship?

Uh-huh.

When you have played, have you ever zipped him up in a suitcase prior?

No.

Okay. So it was just kind of like that prop was there and it was --

Yes.

-- there and it was --

Why you do you say it like that, though?

I would never do that.

You would never zip him up in a suitcase?

Well, I mean, we were playing at that time --

I want to talk about hide and seek, which is the game.

The suitcase originally was in our closet, buried all the way in the back. I know the CSI people saw our closet. Our closet needs to be cleaned out really bad. My son's clothes need to be cleaned out really bad, because they don't fit him anymore and I'm tired of looking at them. So he took it upon himself, including that suitcase, to take it downstairs so we can get all of our clothes, the donations and everything and just leave the whole thing by the clothing and shoe thing at my son's school.

We're just asking -- I'm just asking how did the -- in the past, like, have you ever zipped him up in anything, jokingly or not, but obviously --

No.

-- I understand, you know, you're playing that Sunday, it was a joking matter, you were laughing, he was laughing, but what I'm just asking you is in the past, like, is that something you guys normally do?

Absolutely not.

Okay.

We were actually (unintelligible) running out of places to hide because we had a townhome where it's upstairs or downstairs.

Okay. So do you remember making any videos or maybe having -- anything with any photos, videos that you remember doing on your phone on Sunday?

No.

No?

I think I took a picture of the dog.

Okay. But your phone is password protected, you have the password, he has the facial recognition, so it's not like someone else could be on your phone?

No, I have both.

But you have the face and the password?

Yes.

He only has the face, correct?

No.

To be able to get onto your phone, you told me that he looks at the phone --

Oh, I misunderstood. I thought you were asking if I did. Yes, it's me.

Okay. Does he have access to your phone?

Yes.

Okay. How does he have access?

Sarah, can I borrow your phone? Yeah, it's right there on the kitchen counter.

Okay. But how does he get into it if it's password protected?

He'll come give it to me. I'll just do the face thing -- or sometimes, too, like, he'll joke with me and say, okay, I need to borrow your phone and he'll hold it up (unintelligible) do the facial recognition.

Okay. But he doesn't know the password and he doesn't have the facial recognition?

No.

He is the only other person that would use your phone --

Yes. Well, Lucas.

Right. So Lucas wasn't there Sunday. Great. So to your recollection, no videos on Sunday?

Not that I'm aware of.

Okay. (Unintelligible) maybe I took a picture of the two pets and the dogs and Jorge and them dancing, but, I mean, it's just pets.

Okay. So I have something that I want to show you that we found and it was from your phone. Do you see it?

Can you move it around?

Sarah.

No, I don't remember that.

For everything you've done to me.

Sarah.

For everything you've done to me.

Your battery is (unintelligible).

AUDIO RECORDING: Let me --

Your battery doesn't last very long.

It used to last a lot longer than that. I don't know what happened.

Okay. Let me just grab another one.

No, I was just simply asking because you had a look on your face when she asked you if you've ever done that before, you looked kind of shocked.

No.

Okay. Why did you say it like that?

I don't think you-all understand who I am where --

Well, tell me.

I mean, I've always been a straight-A student. I am an outstanding mother to my son. I excel at everything. I would not do that.

You would not zip somebody up in a suitcase?

Well, I didn't, like, completely lock it. I mean, I opened it with one finger. I left enough in there for him to get out. And I wasn't planning on going upstairs and going to sleep.

Okay. No, it's just the way you said it.

You guys are scaring me.

Why? (Unintelligible) it came from your phone. Don't you want to know what's on it?

Yes, please. Is it long? Because I don't know how much I can take.

Huh-uh.

I don't know how much I can take. Do I have to watch this? (Unintelligible) I don't sleep, I don't have to see it, if that's okay.

Well, it's on your phone and you can either explain it or we take it for what it is.

We're just trying to give you an opportunity to tell us what's going on. That's it.

It's that long?

Two minutes.

For everything you've done to me. For everything you've done to me.

Sarah.

Fuck you.

Sarah.

Fuck you.

That's you, your voice.

Stupid.

Sarah.

That's my name. Don't wear it out.

Sarah, I can't fucking breathe, baby.

Yes, that's what you do when you choke me.

Sarah. Sarah.

I don't want to watch it, please.

Okay.

Sarah.

Last time we talked to you, you had said that you put him in the suitcase, he had two fingers hanging out --

I flipped him over. I flipped him over. And that's where it was.

There's two different videos and a still picture where -- showing you flipping him in different positions and him saying that he can't breathe and you saying fuck you.

This is upside down. So in order for him to have gotten into it --

It was flipped up.

Right. It was flipped up normal.

Yes.

As if you're packing something. So this is upside down?

Guys, this is killing me right now.

So this image is upside down. And then this small video that occurred 11 minutes later is flipped over the other way, closer to your dining room table.

Okay.

Now, he's obviously still in there. So he didn't -- how did that -- how did he go from the back to the front?

I flipped it.

Okay. My plan was not to go upstairs and go to sleep.

Well, that's what you did.

Yeah.

But not intentional, though.

No. You told me you went upstairs because you were getting ready for bed.

AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. But -- show me where you can see any fingers coming out? Because there's the end.

It's -- and his head's right here.

Uh-huh.

So going like this, rather than going all the way up, it's like this.

But why is he saying I can't breathe and why is he pushing on it as if he can't get out? (Unintelligible) the hole.

There's no hole, there's no fingers. I don't see his fingers. There's no hole.

I don't know what -- know what you want me to tell you. Like, I don't know what you want me to tell you.

I'm just showing you -- I'm just telling you what we see and what we've heard from the audio.

I understand. I understand.

He's begging for you to let him out. You sound -- you're laughing in the beginning and then in the end it sounds like --

No. It's not malicious.

Well, saying fuck you --

It's not malicious.

Then what is that?

What does fuck you mean to you?

Well --

Like --

-- like I can tell everything by a white woman. So my intention was not to leave him in there. Please understand that. My intention was not to leave him in there.

But you went up there thinking that he could get himself out --

Yes.

-- but the video shows --

That's what I told you --

-- you don't see his finger --

He'll be up here any minute.

And then 30 minutes later he didn't show --

And he's telling you he can't breathe.

You think he was just joking? You told me he was laughing and --

We were. We were.

In the video there's no laughing.

AUDIO RECORDING: So how long was he in there for? Like, this video is at 11:12 (unintelligible) be in there for, like, a long time prior to that --

No. No. No.

So it goes from funny to no longer funny, but you're the only one laughing.

But I didn't think that he was, like, panicky. Like I didn't --

So pushing up on a suitcase saying, Sarah, Sarah, Sarah, I can't breathe.

Jorge has done that in the past before where it's just like he thinks that he's -- woe is me, kind of thing.

You've never been locked in a suitcase --

No. It's kind of -- I thought -- (Unintelligible) oxygen --

-- it was crying wolf, crying wolf kind of thing. And, again, my --

But nowhere in there is he laughing, is he joking. He is begging and you're the only one laughing --

Okay.

-- and you're the only one saying derogatory comments like you're mad.

No. Please don't -- I don't mean to sound negative and I don't know if I can say this, but, like, it's like you guys are kind of trying to, like, feed me, like --

No, I'm just trying to show you a video that you no longer want to watch because you probably don't want to know the outcome of how and what you said.

Well, I know what --

You know what's on that video now?

No.

You don't remember making that video?

No.

Why don't you remember making the video?

Probably because we had been drinking.

But you weren't drunk.

No. Just because I went upstairs and -- just because you're drunk, doesn't mean that you --

You told us that you were not drunk. You said that you had your wits about you, you said he had his wits about him.

Uh-huh.

You said that you don't like not having your wits. In my experience, if somebody cannot remember doing something to the extent of making two videos and taking Photos, they are intoxicated.

Okay. I understand where you-all are coming from.

We're trying to make sense of it (unintelligible).

We're trying to figure out this video --

Explain it to us. We're listening.

I just did. Like, we were playing and then, like, I thought it was -- my plan was not to go upstairs and go to sleep. My plan was not to -- he'll be up here any minute.

But you willingly went upstairs and went to sleep. No one forced you to go upstairs and --

My plan wasn't also to leave him in the suitcase.

So why didn't you let him out?

Because I went upstairs and then I fell asleep.

But why didn't you consciously think, he's asking to come out --

I didn't do it intentionally.

What do you think is going to happen when you put somebody in a confined space like that?

Well, I thought by not zipping it up all the way it would be okay. My plan was not to leave him in the suitcase.

What was your plan?

Waiting for him to come upstairs.

And then (unintelligible).

I fell asleep.

You said you were up there 30 minutes. After 30 minutes of somebody not coming up --

Knowing that the last time you saw him was in a suitcase, 30 minutes later, you're like, uh, maybe I should go check on him, maybe I shouldn't?

No.

AUDIO RECORDING: (Unintelligible) that's like assumption. Like, that's what you-all are thinking --

We're asking.

It's the whole --

You tell us.

It's the drinking. That's what it is. It's the drinking. I thought he was, like, I thought he was Okay. Like, I didn't --

He's telling you he's not. He's telling you, Sarah, I can't breathe. He's saying your name and you're, like, that's my name. Don't wear it out.

Guys, that's how we are with each other. Like, he has -- nobody understands our relationship. This whole suitcase thing never happened before.

Would you leave someone else in a suitcase? Would you leave Lucas in a suitcase jokingly (unintelligible) would you leave Lucas jokingly in there?

No.

And you love Lucas, right?

I wouldn't (unintelligible). I wouldn't do that to him. So I just --

Well, it's not like -- again, I don't think you-all understand. Like, it's -- I mean, it's not my -- that was not my intention. You-all don't have any idea (unintelligible).

But by your actions, that's exactly right. You get to the point where you've done so much to somebody and they don't show you any appreciation.

No. He did.

Not by your words in the video. I don't get that.

He did.

Because you're bringing up the fact that when he's choking you, you can't breathe. That's how you felt when he cheated on you, you couldn't breathe. And you verbally several times told him, fuck you.

AUDIO RECORDING: When I say cheating, it's on his phone.

Okay. Cheating is cheating.

I think so too.

Exactly.

What's your definition of cheating, though, what the word cheat means?

That's what you told him in the video, that I couldn't breathe when you cheated on me.

No.

That's how I felt when he said, Sarah, I can't breathe.

I don't know what -- this is --

What would you say if somebody told you that they had done this?

Done what?

Zipped somebody in a suitcase and went up and went to bed?

Do you-all not think -- so you-all think that it's, like, oh, good, I have him in there and now I'm going to go to sleep? Is that what you guys are trying to assume? Or trying to, like --

We're just -- the video is very portraying of the opposite of what you told us. This is not -- it does not lead up -- it doesn't match what statement you gave us in the car. And that's why we want to know --

AUDIO RECORDING: The injuries -- the injuries are not consistent with what you told us. So there are a lot of inconsistencies and this video explains itself. [It really and truly does.

You don't think that I have thought about that?

Thought about the video or thought about --

No. Again, if you don't mind, please. So you-all are assuming that, like, oh, good, I got him in there and now I'm going to go to sleep? Is that what you-all are saying?

Well, it's not an assumption when that's what you told us what happened.

That's what happened.

And the video -- I mean --

I'm not going to say --

You thought he could get out on his own.

Yes.

But the video shows that he cannot get out on his own.

But I -- but when I -- I unzipped it with one finger.

From the outside.

But it had a hole in it.

And you're claiming that it had a paperclip and that's what assisted you in doing it is what you told us.

No. When I had my sweatshirt I said I thought it had a paperclip on it.

So the zipper part is broken that --

Yes.

-- pulls --

I just --

You were able to unzip it from the outside very easily because that's the way it's designed.

But you could on the inside, too. I don't know how --

So why wouldn't he have gotten himself out if he could?

I don't know. Like, I don't know if he saw, like, where the hole was. I don't know.

AUDIO RECORDING: That's what I'm saying, like, he's in one position and where is head would be, we should be able to see fingers. And then when it's flipped over onto its right side, again, his head is closer to us facing the video, so we should be able to see fingers and we don't see anything. We see no movement of him trying to unzip it or physically unzipping it. All we see is pushing up, trying to push out.

Please do not assume.

I am not assuming. I don't assume anything. I follow evidence.

But my intention was not, again, oh, good, I got him in there, now I'm just going to go to sleep.

What do you think about if someone that knows nothing about this or hears just a little bit, like, oh, they were playing around in a suitcase and then --

Wait. That's what happened.

But you let him out -- I mean, you put him in, so why didn't you take him out?

Because I was upstairs and I fell asleep.

No, before you went upstairs (unintelligible) haven't gone upstairs (unintelligible) giving me a timeframe on that, and you sat here and told me that that you went upstairs.

My intention was not for this to happen. I am sick about it. I've never done anything like this before in the past. I am sick. Especially with that. I thought I couldn't sleep last night.

Here's the thing. You tell us the -- you vividly remember this when you told us last night that he was laughing and you were laughing, you put him in the Suitcase, he had two fingers sticking out and you go to bed. And now we see something totally different. And it actually shows you upset and, again, using derogatory terms to him when he's begging for his life to get out of that suitcase.

So my thing is --

So when you say we're assuming, we're not assuming --

But so the thing is -- but so it just happened to be that whenever I was videotaping or doing whatever else it had just happened and not have that in it.

Okay. And you -- also in the video you can't see any holes. There's nowhere in that -- where the zipper separates and you could see a hole. If there's a hole, he's pushing on it begging you to get out. We should probably see that -- that hole --

He eventually would have been able to get out. Based on what you're telling us, he should have been able to get out. But the video shows him attempting to get out, begging to get out and he can't. So that's just what we're trying to figure out. I don't know if maybe you had too much to drink and you zipped it up all the way and then --

I did not zip it up all the way.

OKay.

I did not zip it up all the way. This is horrific, okay. Horrific. Horrific. I don't think I'll ever be right because of this. Ever be right. Dealing with everything else that I have in my life personally, and then this, whom I loved. It was not intentional. I would put my hand on the bible. It was not intentional. I would not do that to him nor anyone else.

But you did.

Not intentional.

You intentionally went up to bed --

I didn't intentionally go to bed -- did TI --

Hold on, hold on. How did you not intentionally go to bed? You said you went upstairs and got into bed, that's intentionally going to bed.

Waiting for him.

And he doesn't come if you don't go down and check on him.

So I happened to go to sleep. When I say go to sleep --

And what were you going to do when you get up there?

What do you mean?

What is a bed for? Going to sleep.

Right.

AUDIO RECORDING: Okay. You kept telling us, Hey, I wasn't intoxicated, I wasn't this, I wasn't that.

Being drunk and intoxicated, which -- I was drinking, but --

Okay. So if you weren't intoxicated, then why would you leave somebody in a suitcase and they're begging to get out and telling you that they can't breathe?

If I weren't -- if I hadn't been drinking, you still think it would be same thing (unintelligible). Is that what you-all are trying to do?

I'm not doing anything. I'm simply asking you to explain to me what happened.

Everything was fine and dandy. Everything --

Define fine and dandy.

-- was fine and dandy. Okay. For me to tell you this again (unintelligible) for a day now. I don't know -- I mean, I don't know what you-all want me to tell you, that this was not in any way, shape, or form intentional.

Okay. So when you --

I didn't kill him.

AUDIO RECORDING: I didn't mean to leave him there. That's what I'm trying to tell you.

You got up and walked away. How is that not intentionally leaving --

Because I am looking at the hole knowing that

AUDIO RECORDING: You said you were out for 30 minutes, when he doesn't come up, you don't go down and check on him?

I'm in the bed.

You even moved -- you admit to moving the suitcase, like, over, so --

You rolled it.

You rolled it -- like it's not like --

I didn't want (unintelligible) like that.

AUDIO RECORDING: Sarah.

You guys are killing me right now.

I just want you to (unintelligible.)

Sarah.

That's how he talks to me most of the time. I don't know how -- I don't know what you want me to Say.

I'm just trying to figure what you would expect to happen to somebody when you leave them in a suitcase.

I didn't mean to leave him in there.

Okay.

What's your reasoning for not calling 911 sooner?

Because I didn't know what to do and (unintelligible). I called Brian and maybe like what, five minutes after I called you guys. Not even five minutes. Nonetheless that I had to, like, try -- I was trying to do CPR. I was trying to do CPR. Had to get him out and try to do CPR. And then call you guys. And then it was continually doing CPR with the dispatch on the phone where he had me count out loud, trying to help me focus on what I was doing.

I don't know how -- I mean, you can sit here all day long and say I thought he was going to get himself out but that he didn't and you went upstairs and you stayed there for 30 minutes before you fell asleep.

But can I say too --

You chose not to ever at any point during that 30 minutes walk back down and check on him.

No, wait one second, because I know, like, you-all, like, continually asked me, like, timeframes, timeframes, timeframes. When I told you, like, I don't hardly look at a clock most of the time. So it's like it's a guesstimate. So all I know is it was maybe even ten minutes.

Okay. But the point is, you left the living room where he was begging for help and went upstairs. Regardless of how long you were there, you left.

I thought he was (unintelligible) again.

Okay.

So when he asked to be let out, what was your reasoning for not letting him out?

When I was upstairs?

No. When he's asking on the video. He asked multiple times. He asked to be let out, I can't breathe, like, why didn't you let him out?

Well, number one, I had no idea it was going to be ending like that.

Okay.

Never once.

Okay.

Number two -- you know what? I'll give you five minutes to (unintelligible) five minutes.

Five minutes for what?

Well, based on the video, one video is 11:12 minutes, the next one is 11:23, so you actually gave him at least 11 minutes per video recording. So my thing is, when it stops, he asked multiple times. TI mean, why? Why did you not let him out? It's just a simple question.

AUDIO RECORDING: Were you punishing him?

No. Just --

Well, that's what you're saying in the video. (Unintelligible) this is what you make me feel like.

See, and it's all backfired on me. It's all backfired on me. And I understand there's

AUDIO RECORDING: You --

Tt's awful. I know.

Okay.

It's awful. And I would tell you both this right now, too, I will never drink alcohol again.

Okay.

I will never drink alcohol again. I don't care what it is in any way, shape, or form. I am --

Let's get back to this. What was the reason for leaving him when he's begging to be let out? I don't understand that. (Unintelligible) and, again, it's the whole timeframe thing.

I'm not asking you timeframes. I don't care about timeframes. In your mind saying --

AUDIO RECORDING: You say fuck you.

When -- so -- like, for, like, a whole few minutes, like, when he was in there, like I

AUDIO RECORDING: (Unintelligible) 11.

One video.

One video. Between the two videos is 11 minutes.

Okay.

So (unintelligible).

When he's begging for his life telling you he can't breathe, let me out, and you say fuck you, why don't you just let him out? What are you trying to do to him? There has to be something in your head that you were thinking of when he was asking to be let out and you're like --

Again, it's the typical way of calling wolf.

But where does this game end? I don't -- you say this was a game --

Obviously it went the wrong way.

So what were your intentions for leaving him in there?

And it's not fair. It's not fair. You guys are trying to -- again, oh, he's in there, night-night.

That's what happened.

No.

That's what happened.

No.

How is it not? You got up off the couch, walked up a flight of stairs and got in your bed.

Thinking he was going to get out.

And he didn't and you still didn't go down and check.

And it's the whole 30 minutes thing that (unintelligible) and for all I know it was ten minutes.

He's begging for his life telling you he can't breathe.

I don't know what you want me to tell you. Like, I don't. I didn't intentionally mean for this to happen.

AUDIO RECORDING: Tell us why you left him in there and went upstairs. That's my only issue, like (unintelligible).

So (unintelligible) is what I have a feeling is I went upstairs and just hit the bed kind of thing. But, again, I'm thinking, he'll be up here in a minute. But by then I go out.

But my question is: Why didn't you just let him out prior to going up?

I don't know why.

He's begging to be let out, he's not laughing, he's not having fun.

AUDIO RECORDING: You're telling us it's supposed to be fun. You were laughing before -- before you said he was laughing, you were laughing, you went upstairs, he had his fingers out of the bag and he was playing, but obviously that's not the case.

So, are you guys -- so what is it you're trying to, like --

We're just trying to figure out why.

What --

What was your motivation for leaving him in the bag?

Why was he left in the bag?

I didn't have any motivation. It was me -- he had a great day, walking around being stupid and apparently me going upstairs and going -- hitting the bed, not going to sleep, where it's, like, I'm tired, now going to sleep.

That doesn't explain the fact that he's got a bump on the back of his -- a bump on the front of his head, his lip is busted.

Oh, my gosh. I don't know what you-all want me to tell you. Like, this is not fair at all, at all, that you-all are assuming that that's from me.

Where else did it come from?

If you were -- say it was opposite. You were in the suitcase and you're asking to be let out, would you hope that that person would let you out? Like, you're asking to be let out of the suitcase, should they not let you out?

Eventually. I'm guessing, I mean, I don't -- I'm blaming it on the wine.

You're blaming it on the wine?

So you guys are like assuming that --

You keep saying we're assuming. We're not assuming anything.

We're just asking you questions.

But you guys are assuming that that's what I did.

No. By what the facts of what happened -- we got there, you said you pulled him out of the suitcase, you said you went up and went to bed. We're not assuming that. These are the facts that you're telling us. (Unintelligible) like, oh, I'm tired. Oh, I'm tired.

What you told me on the recorded statement yesterday, because when I said, Oh, you went upstairs and passed out? And you were, like, No, I didn't pass out. I asked you if maybe you were assuming -- you thought I was assuming that you were drunk. So that was an assumption. That was an assumption right there, you passed out. And guess what? You corrected me.

You were very adamant about the fact that both of you had your wits about you -- what's your favorite word you used?

Compos mentis.

You used that today. It's a saying that you guys were in your -- within your wits. There's two empty bottles of wine.

We didn't drink both of them.

AUDIO RECORDING: We didn't. There's receipts for --

They were both purchased yesterday, so I don't know how you didn't, because they weren't there the day before. Two Publix receipts from yesterday, only thing purchased on either one was a single bottle of wine, two of them. So we had each bottle of wine that was empty in your garbage can that you purchased yesterday or he purchased, but you two would have consumed together.

Well, I (unintelligible). (Unintelligible) it's not even worth the --

So this is -- so I don't know what you guys are -- I don't know.

We were just hoping that we can figure out why you --

What was the motivation?

There was no motivation.

Well, we're watching the video -- after talking to you, everything was laughing and fun. Now, we're watching a video where it's not laughing and fun. He's begging for his life and you are in a very angry voice telling him to fuck off.

No.

Yes. That's absolutely the way it was. The video is there. We played it for you.

So you guys think that I intentionally --

You got out off the couch, walked upstairs and got into bed. That was intentional. There's no way getting around that. You intentionally did that. Nobody drug you up there. You didn't float up the damn stairs.

It's not fair. It's not fair that you guys keep trying to say that that's what I did.

You told us that. You didn't go upstairs?

Again, there was a hole in the suitcase. I unzipped it from the hole with one finger.

Well, the damn hole didn't do him no good, did it?

But he could pull it open.

Did he?

The video --

No.

-- shows him pushing up. If he could push it open, why didn't that happen? Why did he beg you to open it?

Saying he can't breathe.

Okay.

If somebody can do something for themselves, they're going to do it. They don't need assistance unless they need assistance.

Then why would he do it?

Because he couldn't because it was all the way Zipped.

It wasn't. I intentionally didn't do it. That I intentionally did not do.

AUDIO RECORDING: (Unintelligible) he nor I -- (Unintelligible) on each other?

No. I don't have anything.

You're right.

Whatever that is -- whatever this --

He does.

This is what happened. It's not fair that you guys -- just because -- automatically blame it on me.

Like, what about you getting your injuries and he gets arrested, is that not fair?

Really? Like really?

AUDIO RECORDING: He has injuries, you have injuries, like, what does that mean?

I don't have any injuries because he and I have not been at it with one another.

So every time you guys fight, you both hit each other? So you should have gone to jail all those times that he (unintelligible) ?

No. The one time I did. But he completely, completely trashed the police report. Because that's nothing what happened. Because the reason I got taken in was because my story was better than his. So I'm being portrayed as, like, this abuser.

We're not saying that he doesn't abuse you.

Absolutely.

So I'm the one being portrayed as the (unintelligible) because I have never dealt with anything like this before. I don't know what to do, how to do it, and I always know what to do and how to do it. This, I don't know. So I don't know, like, what's going on or like --

We are simply trying to find out as well. Again, we've got one side of the story you're telling us, we're going with what you're saying, but then we find stuff that negates what you're telling us.

And I don't even remember doing that.

Okay. You're telling us that we're assuming stuff, but what we're simply doing is telling you what we saw on the video and what you told us.

I understand. I understand. Because I don't remember that.

Okay. Doesn't mean it didn't happen just because you don't remember it.

So is the texting something about me? Like what's --

Is the what?

Texting.

Oh, no, I'm texting.

You guys are scaring me. So I don't know what to expect. I have questions of things that need to be taken care of. I don't --

Okay. You left him in a bag when he's begging you, saying I can't breathe, let me out, and you said fuck you, and you got up off the couch and went upstairs and left him in that bag.

Not intentionally. I would never do that to Jorge.

You did.

Not intentionally. Know that.

I don't.

Know that.

You got up and you went up to bed.

Alcohol is a shitty thing. It's alcohol. Not --

AUDIO RECORDING: You-all --

Please sit down.

-- listen to me.

Please sit town.

You-all, listen. I did not, not intentionally kill him.

So your intention --

I don't know what I need to do or how to do it, or what to say or how to say it.

But what was your intention?

Everyone knows -- everyone knows everything that I've done for Jorge and love him and continuously helped him throughout his life with me and made a happier, better person.

Everybody has their limits.

Everyone knows that.

Everybody has their limits.

So it's, like, okay, so while you're in this place right now, I'm going to snap? Is that -- while we're in a place right now --

Absolutely. I got you on video screaming fuck you.

This is what it feels like when you're choking me. This is what it feels like --

Which was however long ago.

You said it --

The video from last night.

AUDIO RECORDING: There's still feeling towards it. You wouldn't say it if you didn't feel it.

But I would never do that.

But it happened and you did it.

But that's after being playful.

AUDIO RECORDING: I'm sorry?

I would hate to see a bad day.

You-all are making me out to be a person that I'm not, nor would I ever be.

Or are you a different person when you're drunk?

People have different personalities after they consume alcohol.

It depends. If, like, it's --

Well, you're sober now. So sober you

AUDIO RECORDING: Not -- it's both of us. It's both of us. And, again, it's not fair that you-all are assuming that the marks that he had on him are from me.

We asked you where they came from.

I have no idea.

Well, nobody else was there, so nobody --

I have no idea. I swear I did not lay a hand on him.

You just zipped him in the bag.

Nor he.

Just zipped him in the bag and then you flipped the bag around several times.

I didn't do that intentionally.

You didn't intentionally flip the bag around?

No. Why would I do that?

Well, you told us --

When he was upside down.

Right.

You had to put him upside down.

You keep saying (unintelligible).

Oh, my gosh --

AUDIO RECORDING: Nobody else was there.

The video is showing the suitcase in several different positions. So it shows one, like she just said, it had been on its back with the lid open for him to get in there for you to zip it up. Then it shows it on the other side with him in it, you flipped to there, then there's another video where it's on its back again, so you had --

I'm leaving it like this, please. I've leaving it like this. I did not intentionally do this. No malicious intent or effort was towards this. No malicious. (Unintelligible) help you sleep, but you're not sleeping, so --

Last night I maybe got an hour.

Right.

In your voice, you can hear maliciousness. The fuck you is very, very malicious.

You don't talk to people like that. That's not like a common, like, Hey, Scott, fuck you. It's not -- it's not common. It's not something people do. And no one that sees that is going to think that. So we were trying to give you an opportunity and it is what it is.

There's no maliciousness towards that.

AUDIO RECORDING: My intent -- my intent was not for that to happen.

But you went upstairs and went to bed -- or maybe you passed out, I don't know.

Waiting for him. And the whole timeframe thing, it's like (unintelligible).

Waiting for him, it's not like you -- you walked up the stairs, no one came -- you can't fly up the stairs, no one can take you up the stairs. You go up there, you lay in the bed and you wait for him. Who cares if it's five minutes, who cares if it's 30 freaking seconds. He's begging for his life, he's begging to get out. You go upstairs. It doesn't matter. So maybe if -- get the timeframe out of your mind. (Unintelligible) it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter because (unintelligible) so it does matter anything what it is I say. So it's going to make no difference whatsoever.

You keep -- you're lying and it's like you're not -- you're not (unintelligible) you're now -- now you're drunk.

I never said I was drunk.

Exactly what you did here today. That's okay. Everything is recorded.

Alcohol. (Unintelligible) alcohol.

You blamed it on alcohol. Alcohol does a lot to people.

Yes, but I never said I was drunk.

So you did that -- you did that sober? You knowingly left him down there sober?

I have already told you also that we were both drinking.

You want to admit you were drunk?

I'm telling you-all both, this has changed my life. I will take this -- I don't know --

That's a true statement?

Absolutely.

But you're trying to dance around the fact that you --

AUDIO RECORDING: You left him in there. You didn't --

There's just not --

You didn't leave him in there?

It's not cool. Like, this is not cool.

He's dead --

You think that I did that intentionally. You think that I did that intentionally.

You intentionally left him in there and left the room. You went upstairs to a different room.

You intentionally did that.

You did.

Yes.

Thinking he was going to get out.

Okay. He didn't.

Obviously not.

So if somebody is begging for their --

But you haven't --

AUDIO RECORDING: No. It's -- again, I thought it was a boy crying wolf. So it was just like, what --

Assuming your son was in there and said I can't breathe, are you going to open it or is not

AUDIO RECORDING: But you said you would never put your son ina suitcase, but you would put Jorge in there.

No. Jorge got in the suitcase.

And you zipped it up.

Not all the way and not intentionally to leave him there.

That's what happened. You keeping going there, but that's exactly what happened.

You-all are trying to have me admit that? Like, are you trying to have me admit that? Because I will never admit it because it is not true. It's not true.

I'm basically saying it's fact that that's what happened.

OKay.

You videotaped him asking to be let out. You go upstairs --

So what, guys? So what? Like, just -- I don't know what you want me to say other than it was not out of maliciousness or intentional. I don't know what or how I can say it. I love Jorge. Love him. Till this day still, love him.

Love makes you do crazy things.

It doesn't do -- it's not where it's, like, oh, gosh, you know what, I've done enough for you at this point. I never gave up on him. That's why I'm here today, I'm still not giving up on him. I would do anything for him.

Well, you gave up checking up on him.

Wouldn't let him out of the suitcase.

Oh, gosh. Okay.

We're simply just trying go through -- I mean, again, you gave us, like, completely different stories and you changed that to this was such a laughing matter --

It was fun all day. All day.

The video --

All day.

I don't think anybody that looks at that video and go, Jorge is having fun right now.

So why is it you-all think that I -- I -- you-all don't know me. You don't know me.

No.

Wouldn't do something like that, especially having a nine-year-old son.

AUDIO RECORDING: Like, why are you so, like, caught on what we're saying?

Because you --

Why do you care about what you told us --

It's because you guys are, like, trying to --

The things that the video shows that are opposite of what you told us and then what you --

AUDIO RECORDING: Well, you said you thought it was funny and --

We were playing before that.

Okay.

But then it stopped. It obviously stops being fun because you're screaming at him. He's begging to get out.

I'm not screaming at him.

It sounds like screaming to me.

I don't know what you-all want to me tell you. In no way, Shape, or form it was intentional, at all, ever.

Okay. Are you still going to allow us to do your fingernails?

Go for it.

Go for it. Okay. I'm going to get that set up. Do you need any --

No, but when you come back, can I have water?

Yeah.

Just don't understand.

So it was --

I don't understand how your story changes so much.

How is it changing? Please help me explain it, understand.

You went on about how this was such a playful thing and you guys were laughing, and it probably was for a few minutes, but then it obviously changes. This whole situation completely changes. It's not the funny, laughing matter. He's not laughing at all.

I didn't think he was being serious. (Unintelligible) sound serious.

AUDIO RECORDING: You don't think your voice -- you sounded serious?

Okay. I don't know what you want me to tell you. It was a great day. It didn't end well obviously.

Going to say, I mean --

I can't explain to you. I can't explain to you how horrific it was to find him. Horrific. I don't remember taking those videos. How horrific. I'm thinking he's in the bathroom. I mean, downstairs on the laptop. I can't find him. So what's going to happen? Like -- (Unintelligible) is you don't remember taking videos, you don't know where he is, you don't remember him being in the suitcase, and you're still telling me that you had your wits about you?

AUDIO RECORDING: (Unintelligible) when --

See, that's the thing, too, that you can clearly tell -- you can clearly tell that I had been drinking. You can clearly tell.

I have had several people that came up to me and (unintelligible) that you were drunk on a daily basis.

Oh, my gosh. Right.

Regularly.

Right.

Talk to the property manager.

Okay.

Because --

These are your neighbors, the ones that live next to you, your property manager is not going to live next to you. They see you every day.

AUDIO RECORDING: Just making sure.

So, am I getting my phone back?

No.

Not today.

What about my laptop?

No.

Not today.

What does that mean?

We're still going through it.

Oh, that's fine.

Your phone has videos that we need to see on it, SO --

That's fine.

-- we just need to do our due diligence that we go through everything.

See, and that backfired on me now, too, because now you-all think I have even more intent to do what I did then, which was not intentional. And that -- is that correct?

She's asking about (unintelligible).

No, but I'm asking you; is that correct?

No, I'm not going to (unintelligible) what you're saying, I'm not --

AUDIO RECORDING: Uh-huh.

Do you want to inform her or do you want me to call her?

We don't have to inform her (unintelligible). If you'd like to call her you can.

Are you saying he was on probation?

No, but because of the nice lady that she is, and all that she's done for him, I thought -- I didn't know how --

Legally, we just have to call his parents. We don't -- I didn't even know who his probation officer was, so I'm not going to --

So the same thing for classes?

Classes?

Substance abuse class and his batterer's intervention.

AUDIO RECORDING: So, other than this -- so, initially, what was the cause of death?

It's still pending because she wants to hold the body for an additional day to see if more of those bruises turn into something bigger. And she's doing some other tests that she's got to do. So she's pending it for now.

So that could have been of him being in the suitcase?

That's what she's determining. The ones on the head, I asked her, could it have been the suitcase and she said she didn't think so.

I didn't touch him, nor did he touch me.

Okay. (Unintelligible) so I don't know if you-all know how to do this because I (unintentional), so are you all updating his parents today or (unintelligible).

AUDIO RECORDING: Because --

We're going to talk with them.

But it's going to come back to me.

What you do mean?

Like, so, it's being put on me.

Who said that?

So what are you going to tell them?

We're going to give them an update, just wanted to give you an update on the autopsy.

Okay. So it's (unintelligible).

Here's the thing -- here's the thing. We got to deliver the news to them last night their son was dead. There's not a whole lot of conversation that goes on after that. It's not a very easy --

Was it yesterday or Sunday? Sunday. Today's Tuesday, right?

Did we not meet yesterday? We met you yesterday.

Yeah.

Did we not meet yesterday?

It's a valid question.

Really? Yes, on Monday.

Okay.

Got it.

Perfect.

So am I going to have to ask you guys or how do I find this out, other than talking to his parents, which is not going to happen.

AUDIO RECORDING: How do you guys address me finding about, you know --

That's not even something that's been probably talked about between the family. That's not something we ask. We have no way of --

AUDIO RECORDING: -- doing.

SO --

It would be up to them to make the arrangements of what they want to do. Like she just told you, they're just being told last night, pretty much (unintelligible) that they have not even considered what they're going to do.

AUDIO RECORDING: (Unintelligible) been there with the parents, grandparents, and uncles. So I don't know if I have a right to or not, but I want to call his former employees whom he really cared for and let them know.

You can call whoever you want.

I just don't want to do something that I'm not supposed to. How do I go about getting his wedding ring, engagement ring?

It's at the medical examiner's office. It will come to ours eventually and then --

It will be released to his next of kin.

I got it for him.

Okay. It's a civil issue. It was on his finger, it goes to them. They're the ones that can release it. We don't have any say in that.

So I won't get that back. So for all of this, like, how do I find out what's been found?

What do you mean?

Pillow was stained, swab stain from pillow, suitcase --

That will all be sent off to --

FDLE.

-- FDLE, Florida Department of Law Enforcement. That's where they do their testing.

So -- and, then, like, whatever right hand with blood and necktie with blood, was found in the suitcase. Why did -- you'll see it in there, the baseball bat. And this is just his phone, my phone, and the laptop.

Nothing can be released. We are very early in this investigation and (unintelligible) unfortunately.

So what's next?

They're going to come and swab your fingers.

No, I'm talking about, like, in the long run, like, what I need to -- like, do I need to be doing something or like --

I can't tell you what to do.

I mean, like, so, like, for -- like, I don't understand. I don't know if you guys are just going to just, like -- because it makes it sound like to me, like, I'm being accused of something that was not intentional, I'm being accused of it. And a handful of other things that I'm being accused of.

Okay.

So I don't want to be at home with Lucas and you guys show up.

Okay. I understand.

So --

We're still investigating. I don't know what you want me to tell you.

So, if there is going to be a concrete whatever it is and then say, okay, this is what it is, kind of thing, or, like, because I've done the whole court thing, I've done the whole attorney thing, I've done whatever. So if -- I'm not admitting anything about being intentional and I killed Jorge. That's not the situation, but it's (unintelligible).

Okay.

That was not my intent, but it's (unintelligible). So however or whatever it is I need to do in order for that to be true, then I need to do something, which is try -- I'm trying to get my ducks in a row.

Okay.

That's why I'm asking what the next step is other than getting my nails swabbed.

I mean, you want me to tell you how to not be accused of a crime? Is that what you're asking? Like, I don't know what you --

I'm trying to prepare myself for whatever may need to be done, so I can stick up for myself.

I mean, I think you're doing just fine. You came in, you talked --

I just don't want you guys, again, to show up and Lucas is in the house.

Well, we did tell you yesterday that we don't want to do anything around your son. That's why you came to us. So I don't know why you think that's going to change.

That and/or may not just show up back home.

I'm sorry, what?

Me just not show up back home. That's what -- being so happy that I stayed over at the house with Brian. I'm still happy. And I'm not going back into the house -- to my house for however long I can stay over here because of whatever to blow over. And, again, if you don't mind me asking, so for whatever it is you-all are claiming from the videos, which, yeah, is that what you're going to tell them, like, his parents, like, oh, yeah, by the way, she did it?

Did what?

I mean, what would you tell them?

I don't think it really matters what we're going to tell the parents.

Oh, yeah, it is. It's fuel to the fire.

Well, we can't hide things. And I don't know -- I'm not saying we're going to go to -- I'm not saying that we're going to go and tell them every single thing we have. But, again, this is the Orange County Sheriff's, that's public record, so eventually, like, this all will come out. So it's just like I'm not -- you're making it sound like we're going to tell them something, so then your life is in danger and I don't like that accusation. So let's just nip that in the bud right now.

Well, that's what's going to happen.

I cannot -- I cannot --

But we can't even -- there's not a concrete report yet even.

Right.

You want me to like (unintelligible).

AUDIO RECORDING: (Unintelligible) the way that I did last time?

Yeah (unintelligible).

I get it.

What?

I get it. That looks really bad. So that's what scares me. Like, what do I need to plan on? Like, what do I need to plan on? I promise you on my son's life, it was not intentional. I promise you on Lucas' life, it was not intentional.

I don't know you. I can't say I know anything about you. I don't know what is -- what would be a true statement or not. I mean, if you're promising on your son's life, that's fine.

That's how much it means.

AUDIO RECORDING: That's how much it means. I hope you take that to heart, please. (Unintelligible) I get it.

Is there any way I can get my phone back?

AUDIO RECORDING: What did you say?

I said no telling (unintelligible).

Well, that's not -- my laptop is Lucas' laptop. When he plays -- you'll see all the games he has on there.

As soon as we can get that back to Lucas, we will. As soon as we can release your phone, we will. We have no way of being able to tell you because we don't have control over their caseload and how they arrange what they do, so I don't know. At this point, I think, honestly, with everything else that's going on, it should probably be at the bottom of your list of worries.

I'm trying to make Lucas happy so he can have his laptop back.

Okay. Does Brian have a laptop for him?

He has his laptop that he has to do for work, but he doesn't want him using it because of breaking or dropping. It's not a big deal (unintelligible) anyway. So you will keep me posted, like, updated?

Uh-huh.

That's my thing is I'm trying to figure out what I need to do in the meantime.

I don't know what -- I can't -- like, I don't know what to tell you, though.

But you-all have more information than I do where (unintelligible) you might want to, yeah, you might want to --

I'm sorry --

Like we have more information on what?

We told you everything that we have. You know everything that we know. And most of it we got from you.

But like I was telling her, like, yeah, that's bad. Like, which I (unintelligible) was not intentional, so that's why I'm trying to figure out what I need to do for myself --

Okay.

-- going forward with this. Nonetheless, with his family and/or you-all just showing up with Lucas there.

We've already both told you that we (unintelligible) situations.

So you guys are going to call me tomorrow or do you want me to come back down here?

I'll chat with you next time. I don't know when I'm going to call you.

Doesn't a report come out (unintelligible) ?

Our report?

Understanding a report is generated through us, the sheriff's office is a public entity. So if someone were to request something, then --

No, I'm talking about his autopsy.

She's waiting and doing her follow up, but --

She's looking at him.

Yeah.

But she won't be finished with him because she's

AUDIO RECORDING: So after this, what? I'm done for now? How long until I can get my stuff back?

The FDLE --

(Unintentional) you won't get back. The swabs and stuff will stay.

But I'll know about it? (Unintelligible) keep calling my phone. Keep having to have those people (unintelligible).

I hope you-all can really truly understand that that was not my intent. I miss hima lot.

I mean, but my question has remained the same. What do you expect to happen to somebody when you leave them in a position like that?

Yes. But you have to understand, too --

No, no. Just what would you expect to happen to somebody when you leave them in a position --

I have no idea because I've never done it before.

Why haven't you ever done it before?

Why would I?

Exactly.

Why would I do it before?

Why did you do it now?

I clearly have said why.

No, you don't know why. I just know that it's not intentional, but you don't know why. But that's okay. I'm not trying to force you into saying something that you don't know.

The fact that you guys would assume that I'm that kind of person.

We're not assuming anything. We're going by the facts that happened.

Like you said, you don't know me. What time is it, please?

4:46.

So for me to have to live with getting him out and doing what I did is punishment enough. I think that's why I haven't slept because that's all I see. So that right there says something. Not my intention.

AUDIO RECORDING: Punishment in itself.

Definitely a tragic situation. (Unintelligible) unfortunate to think that things like this happen.

AUDIO RECORDING: Nonetheless, I have to live with that now.

Uh-huh. His daughters, too.

Are you trying to make it worse?

Sorry, what?

Are you trying to make it worse?

Make what worse?

How I feel?

I'm just making a comment. (Unintelligible) there yesterday and she took your photos. (Unintelligible) on one hand and then your right hand.

Okay.

AUDIO RECORDING: Okay, Sarah. So you're -- you're not free to go, okay? Do you promise everything you told us was the truth? Everything we talked about today?

Yes. What do you mean?

Remember, I swore you yesterday on the audio recording? I just forgot to do -- you raise your hand to remind me to tell you.

Okay.

Do you promise and swear that everything we talked about today was true and accurate to the best of your knowledge or which (unintelligible) to the best of your knowledge?

Was it intentional?

Everything you said today. Everything that has come out of your mouth has been true and accurate to the best of your knowledge?

To the best of my knowledge.

Correct.

Yes.

Why? (Unintelligible) to assure that everything that we talked about is --

True and accurate to the best of that person's knowledge.

It's not a trick question.

To the best of my knowledge?

To the best of your knowledge.

Everything that you told us today is true and accurate to the best of your knowledge?

Yes, that it was not intentional.

Okay. Okay.

Do me a favor and stand up. I need you to turn around and face the wall. Put your hands behind your back. Do you have anything in your pockets that I should know about?

No.

Okay.

Why is this happening?

Because Jorge is dead.

Not intentionally.

We understand that.

He's still dead.

I need you to call Brian, please.

Okay.

Or can I make a phone call?

You'll be able to make a phone call when we get you down to the jail.

So why is this happening?

AUDIO RECORDING: (Unintelligible) to ask you to explain a few things to us and --

You were read your rights.

Your response to everything was, basically, I didn't do it.

Intentionally.

It doesn't matter. He's still dead. Do me a favor. Have a seat.

AUDIO RECORDING: Because --

Before you-all said I could leave. That I was done after this -- after that.

We were done, yes. We are done. Absolutely.

So now that's what it is?

We're done.

Right.

Not intentional.

Okay.

So what am I supposed to do now?

You will --

Someone needs to call Brian. Lucas is waiting for mom to come home. This was not my intention. I thought I was waiting for you-all to come and to figure out what's what and how many.

That's what we're trying to do.

And I was going to be able to go home and see Lucas. (Unintelligible) come home. So there's nothing that I can do?

Not right now.

There's nothing that I can do in order to go home and see Lucas and prepare?

You'll be afforded a time in court, you'll be afforded an attorney, you'll be afforded the chance to talk to a judge, and all that stuff will be worked out.

But what's the timeframe for that, though?

I have no way to be able to tell you. You should make first appearance by tomorrow morning, if not tonight (unintelligible) how quickly you get down there. (Unintelligible) and I need water, like, really bad, too.

Have a seat.

AUDIO RECORDING: I just got those.

Okay. They are not allowed in the jail.

I can't even have a cigarette. And what am I going to do with my car?

When you get down there, you will have three (unintelligible) be able to call.

As soon as possible?

Yeah, once you get down there, they book you in, you'll be able to use a phone.

But how long will that take? Because I need to talk to Brian. (Unintelligible) as quickly as they can get you through, probably within the hour. There's a free Phone in the lobby.

AUDIO RECORDING: She has no clue.

So can I ask you or whoever, those holding cells, the holding cells (unintelligible) I have panic attacks.

Let them know that.

You're familiar with the big bays. As long as you go in and you act civil to them, they'll set you up in a big bay, you'll be left there --

AUDIO RECORDING: That's not up to us. We don't work at the jail.

As long as you (unintelligible).

You go in and act like this, you'll go in and they'll put you in a big bay. If you go in there screaming and kicking and yelling and cursing --

AUDIO RECORDING: I don't know. I'm just letting you know that's what happens. That's how they weed people out. If you go in there acting like this --

So ask for a big bay?

They'll put you there as long as you're acting like this. (Unintelligible) the last time I had a major panic attack.

AUDIO RECORDING: Where am I going to go first?

At first you're going to come with the

AUDIO RECORDING: When did you-all decide to do this?

What made us decide to do this, Jorge is dead.

Did you guys -- I knew this was going to happen.

You did? Okay.

AUDIO RECORDING: Absolutely. We were trying to figure out what's going on, we're still trying to figure out what's going on.

Unintentionally. I have my (unintelligible). I have things in my car that I need to (unintelligible).

What kind of stuff do you have in your car that --

Well, I have my medication.

They have a pharmacy there, so if there is something that you have to have right away, you'll be seeing a nurse.